"Last chance" pour l'upgrade SSM du D9/D9ti

[Slipsale]

Bon, après les italiens et les espagnols, ce sont les russes qui nous rejoignent :
http://forum.minolta-club.ru/showthread.php?p=184512#post184512

Les polonais ne devraient pas tarder.

[LE BISON]

:+1:

Bon, après les italiens et les espagnols, ce sont les russes qui nous rejoignent :
http://forum.minolta-club.ru/showthread.php?p=184512#post184512

Les polonais ne devraient pas tarder.

Tu peux traduire?
Je capte rien .

[y2k]

Tu peux traduire?
Je capte rien .

C'est traduit la :

http://www.alphadxd.fr/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=23052

[Slipsale]

Ay caramba Lou Bison ! Yé vé té rediriger sour lou forum espagnol ploutôt !

PS : et en polonais, tu comprends mieux ? Hihi !

[jr56]

Je peux vous le tenter en créole, mais je doute du nombre de D9 aux Antilles françaises, et en plus vu la grève contre la vie chère là-bas, je ne sais si ce serait bien accueilli!

[LE BISON]

Ay caramba Lou Bison ! Yé vé té rediriger sour lou forum espagnol ploutôt !

PS : et en polonais, tu comprends mieux ? Hihi !

Vu les tofs mises en ligne par nos amis polonais, j'annule tout . Trop peur pour mes bébés .

[Slipsale]

Y a quelqu'un sur ce fil qui appelle ce D9 la "naked edition". Tu ne l'as pas celle la, hein ?

[staurenghi]

C'est posté
http://www.minoltasonyclub.it/cms/forum/viewtopic.php?p=178805#178805
Merci à Paco et à ab 68 pour leur aide.

ciao fangio,
ho visto l'articolo che hai scritto e te la sei cavato molto bene
non penso che lo avrei scritto meglio io, quindi a te e chi ti ha aiutato !

[paco7850]

C'est posté
http://www.minoltasonyclub.it/cms/forum/viewtopic.php?p=178805#178805
Merci à Paco et à ab 68 pour leur aide.

ciao fangio,
ho visto l'articolo che hai scritto e te la sei cavato molto bene
non penso che lo avrei scritto meglio io, quindi a te e chi ti ha aiutato !

Ciao Staurenghi, il latte della Lupa non si dimentica!Sopratutto perché ne ho bevuto durante ventisei anni..
E tu? Di dove sei? Regione di Genova,o Torino?
"Lassatece passà,semo romani...li mejo fichi de sta Roma bella..."

[staurenghi]

C'est posté
http://www.minoltasonyclub.it/cms/forum/viewtopic.php?p=178805#178805
Merci à Paco et à ab 68 pour leur aide.

ciao fangio,
ho visto l'articolo che hai scritto e te la sei cavato molto bene
non penso che lo avrei scritto meglio io, quindi a te e chi ti ha aiutato !

Ciao Staurenghi, il latte della Lupa non si dimentica!Sopratutto perché ne ho bevuto durante ventisei anni..
E tu? Di dove sei? Regione di Genova,o Torino?
"Lassatece passà,semo romani...li mejo fichi de sta Roma bella..."

ue, ue ( com' dicen'a napule)
in fatti, mio padre é di itri un paese tra gaeta e formia ( lt)
e mia mamma é di napoli
e io sono nato a marsiglia perché i miei genitori lavoravano in francia, pero ho tutto la mia famiglia in italia (zii, cugini.....)
che sono un pò d'apertutto ( roma, milano, bologna, parma ,modena, napoli, reggio emilia) ecco , sai tutto adesso

mi fa molto piacere di parlare italiano,
però, credo che se non ci mettiamo a riparlare francese, ci sara un litigo con i moderatori, o no ?

[paco7850]

No, non credo che l'italiano sia proibito..
Ma avete colonizzato mezza Italia con la tua famiglia?Ho conosciuto molti toscani che andavano e venivano tra Marsiglia e la Toscana.Vabbé, mò riparlamo francese (ma tu, guagliò,lo scrivi napoletano in dialetto?). Ah, il golfo di Gaeta...
Ah, un proverbio che si cita a volte per dire "ma chi se ne frega" a qualcuno che non è daccordo con noi:
"E come disse la vacca al mulo, si nun te piace :vattela a pijà n'der culo"
Bon, à la prochaine...

[Slipsale]

Je ne comprends plus rien : on est sur le forum italien ?

[staurenghi]

forum italien ? quoique .....

non, d'ailleurs comme je le disais a paco7850, dans ma dernière phrase : je crois qu'il faut reparler français ou on va avoir des problème avec les modos

bon, sinon paco7850, je parle super bien le napolitain, meme mieux que l'italien, par contre c'est super dur a écrire, même ma mère qui est napolitaine pur souche y perd son latin

bon en tous cas espérons que ce rapprochement pétitionnaire entre forums ouvre les yeux des ensuqués de chez sony pour tous les possesseurs de D9

[Slipsale]

Ca y est, le forum polonais est enfin au courant.
http://klubkm.pl/forum/showthread.php?p=745412#post745412

J'en profite pour mettre le lien de l'article sur Dyxum.
http://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/maxxum9/Petition.asp

[LE BISON]

Ca y est, le forum polonais est enfin au courant.
http://klubkm.pl/forum/showthread.php?p=745412#post745412

J'en profite pour mettre le lien de l'article sur Dyxum.
http://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/maxxum9/Petition.asp

Merci pour ton travail Patrick .

[Slipsale]

Merci.

Quelques informations fortes intéressantes sur l'upgrade par Matthias Paul sur Dyxum (j'ai refait la mise en forme pour plus de clarté car le message initial était un gros pavé non aéré) :

Dear friends,

Please let me clarify a few things we already discussed in detail over at Minolta-Forum, but apparently not all of the info made it into this thread at Dyxum.

There are two methods to upgrade a Dynax/Maxxum/Alpha 9/9Ti with SSM/ADI functionality:

- One method is to remove the flexible main circuit board of the camera (a single part as shown on the photos, not multiple boards) and replace it with the upgraded version, the third known revision of this board since the very start of the production of the 9/9Ti. As a spare part, this whole circuit board costs 160,80 USD.

- A second method to upgrade a given camera is to just replace IC-1 on this circuit board. On this photo of the back of the unfolded circuit board, it can be found as the big black "plastic square" located in the top left fraction of the four-folded center portion of the circuit board. On this photo of an opened camera, the IC can be seen on the top left side of the pentaprism when viewed from the front of the camera.
Whilst to some it may look impossible to successfully replace this IC in the first place, for someone who is familiar with manually soldering fine-pitch SMD ICs, this is by no means trivial, but also far from being an impossible task having the proper tools for this kind of work at hands.
Actually, Minolta and Konica Minolta offered both, the whole circuit board and the single IC, as spare parts, so that the service facilities could choose their preferred upgrade method themselves. I don't know the price of this IC, but from the price of the whole board and the other parts found on the board, I would guess the price of this IC as spare part must have been around 20 to 40 USD.

A new production run may be cost prohibitive, if several 100000 of these chips had been manufactured originally, but I'm not so sure about that, given the fact that at least three revisions of this chip existed during the production period (probably alot more during development) and that the 9Ti run was a low volume run (although the same chips in a different configuration were used in the 9, once the 9Ti had been developed). It all depends on development circumstances and hardware technologies used - with a bit of luck, it may well be possible to match the original production costs. If the logic configuration of the SSM/ADI upgrade is not mask-programmed, production costs would be low even for low volumes, and this is likely to be the case for various reasons : No 9/9Ti did support SSM/ADI out of the box, and replacing IC-1 is mandantory to get these features - it is not possible to upgrade old cameras by reprogramming them. This indicates that the original production runs were either mask-programmed or, if not, did not left enough free space to add these features.

What can be deducted from this ? The SSM/ADI capable chips produced by Minolta have never been produced for full 9/9Ti production runs, but as spare parts supply for the years to come and/or for the very purpose of upgrading existing cameras. Minolta would not have produced 100000 of these chips for these purposes, so mask-programming them would likely have been cost prohibitive. But even if they would, they would surely not all have been used up for these purposes until now, given that the supply of these boards and chips between 2003 and 2008 was always slow and low volume. And if Minolta would have intended to use these chips in production 9/9Ti runs, we would have already seen reports of people discovering that their unmodified cameras would provide these extra features, but we didn't. This indicates, that the production run for the SSM/ADI upgrade was comparibly low volume (in the several thousands to several ten-thousands, perhaps), and from this we can deduct, that the manufacturing technology used for the production of these upgrades was already tailored at low volumes, and that it could be done for the same reasonable costs again. See ? Another hint on this is the fact, that whilst the original logic of the Minolta Dynax/Maxxum/Alpha 7 was mask-programmed, later revisions of at least the Alpha 7 Chinese Navigation Model used a flashable circuit board, which is identical to the board used in the 7 Limited and can be reprogrammed as required.
I don't know when exactly the SSM/ADI upgrade for the 9/9Ti became available to customers, but it must have been between 2001 and 2003, that is, at a time when the flashable circuit board for the 7 was available already. Finally, if, by all odds, IC-1 would still be a mask-programmed design, this would have made sense only, if it was used in another camera design as well - the nearest relative of the 9 is the 7, so there is a slight chance, that these cameras share the same chip and that spare parts for the 7 could be retrofitted for use in the 9 - so, no supply problem here either. From a cursory look at the schematics, however, this does not seem to be the case.

Anyway, while we may evaluate our options at reverse-engineering this chip (very difficult) and producing a custom-replacement ourselves, for now, we don't even know why Runtime is unable to get spare parts from Sony.

The purpose of this petition is to bring this problem to Sony's attention and get a clear statement from them as to what are the actual reasons and how to possibly overcome them.
I think, it is not only in the interests of the loyal 9/9Ti customers (and, more indirectly, for all users using our mount for to have more options in a more attractive system), but also in Sony's own interest to make the upgrade available again.
Even if Sony would continue to make the upgrade available under similar conditions as they did until recently, selling a single high-grade G or ZA SSM lens to one of these Dynax 9/9Ti users would already cover the costs of the upgrade. People, who cannot upgrade their Dynax 9/9Ti, are quite unlikely to purchase SSM lenses, ADI capable Sony flashes, or new Sony DSLRs. At the same time, by establishing a relationship of trust with the more advanced A-mount user base, Sony would win (back former) loyal A-mount customers, which would generate them even more income in the future. A win on both sides.

Another purpose of this petition is to help Sony get an estimate at how many upgrades might still be needed (always knowing, that only a small fraction of 9/9Ti users will actually learn about our petition).

So, let's continue to collect voices and users willing to participate in this petition, and then let's try to find a satisfactory solution.

Greetings,

Matthias